Local political wonk Elisabeth Britt is rather displeased with recent story comments (Sam’s note: Not the same as blog comments) at our Web site that are inaccurate.
Says Britt:
Over the weekend, a person who writes under the false name “Pioneer” posted multiple comments that County Council candidate Dan McShane’s father is an unethical builder at Semiahmoo. “Just ask anyone who lives there, he said.”
But Dan McShane’s father is not a builder at Semiahmoo. He was an engineer who was born and raised in Pittsburg, PA. He also passed away 16 years ago — but “Pioneer” doesn’t give a damn about the truth. He just wants to start ugly rumors about McShane’s family.
Read the full post, right here.
Read another post from Britt going after more misinformation on the rural element update discussion, over here.
October 8th, 2009 at 11:44 AM
There is a theme to these attacks which are false or libelous. THEY ARE ANONYMOUS.
The Herald’s policies, as well as others inadvertently make these possible.
Additionally when people have to use their own names, they are more polite.
The Herald’s comment postings have turned into a joke, all too often. This turns people away from their newspaper, which in turn costs them money.
Hello. Any one home.
October 8th, 2009 at 11:47 AM
It doesn’t take too many examples of Pioneer’s postings on Pluck to get the sense of the non-sense that commenter practices.
But to be called-out by a real blogger must have made his day.
Somebody’s reading his stuff!
October 8th, 2009 at 11:58 AM
It’s kinda like…so what??…In the political process honesty has been the high note of all campaigns…yeah sure….promises made…never kept….not in my lifetime…whining about it is just as annoying….buckle up buttercup…it isn’t the first nor the last….I’m sure Dan McShane and his minions have NEVER said anything ugly or hearsay….
October 8th, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Gene, unfortunately I had to kill the comment due to the profanity included, which is not allowed here. You’re more than welcome to repost the comment without that word.
October 8th, 2009 at 12:24 PM
P.S. ~ you may actually have meant a different term than the one you used.
October 8th, 2009 at 12:29 PM
McGee - so people should let anon posters say whatever they want? You don’t think citizens should shine a little light on lies?
I think whenever someone lies, fails to uphold a promise, all that, people should hold them accountable. Why wouldn’t you?
October 8th, 2009 at 12:52 PM
I think that maybe readers should be able to tag a comment as defamation (in addition to spam, obscenity, etc)
October 8th, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Donde - there are categories for “personal attack” and “other” as well.
October 8th, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Actually, I had a number of half-truths, disinformation and flat out lies to cite in my post.
I chose the comment about McShane’s father because it came closest to being the “perfect lie” in the articles/letters I read that day.
My goodness, McGee, that comment is a nice example of “hit and run.” Attack your opponent’s postion, then scamper off before an answer can be fielded!
October 8th, 2009 at 1:38 PM
McGee,
I’ll be your buttercup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrMaehtFu1c
October 8th, 2009 at 1:53 PM
McGee and friends,
And I’ll be your huckleberry”ette!”
October 8th, 2009 at 2:15 PM
I posted this on Elizabeth’s blog; (it may also appear on the story comments boards):
Posting on the story comment board at the Herald is considered a ‘blood sport’ by its’ regular posters (including myself). It’s a safe venue where a mostly uninformed community can fabricate, vent, and gossip, and is indistinctive of Sam’s blog.
On the other hand, it is a powerful platform used by trolls disguised as ‘regular joes’ for promoting their agenda to the gullible.
Mindless stoops lacking the ability to formulate their own arguments, Pioneer and his cohorts posting under the anonymous pseudonyms of spinnwolf, madbee, and nwwaguy (who was rightfully banned from Sam’s blog) are vindictive, malicious liars who post the right fringe’s obstructionist deceitful talking points.
October 8th, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Camille - NWWaguy was not banned from this blog. SilentMajority was, and the ban was lifted last week. He hasn’t posted again yet.
October 8th, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Community discussion through commenrs can be tough & rigorous, but it shouldn’t be a ‘blood sport’ where people too cowardly too usetheir real names (abetted by the Bham Herald) to post their opinions for PUBLIC viewing can openly lie & propagandize without consequences.
Once again I’ll put in my plea to the herald for a CONSISTENT policy of having those who want their opinions published to adhere to the same standard of including their real names & maybe location. Writers of LtE have to do this. So should all commenters.
If enough of us request this, with reasons, maybe it will happen & give the Herald the chance to become a good forum for good discussion.
October 8th, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Sam,
You do a great job! It appears that some are asking you to call your posters out.
Will that make them targets, not of those good contributors, but of others in your audience?
Who’s to say? After all, I have noticed that you are becoming one. So sorry to see that.
October 8th, 2009 at 7:28 PM
There are so many good reasons why anonymity has nothing to do with a valid opinion that I can’t bear to repeat them all.
But I know one thing fer sure,
nobody that posts here isn’t a real person.
October 8th, 2009 at 7:31 PM
Fern - I try my best to not necessarily “call out” a poster but to do several things: 1) Continue the conversation in the comment threads by engaging readers and commenters to add more to what they have to say. I do that by asking questions, often playing “Devil’s Advocate,” which is something I do a lot as a journalist anyway. 2) Fact-checking something a commenter says either based on my experience at an event or with statistical and other empirical evidence. 3) Referee comments as fairly and arbitrarily as I can. This is the most challenging aspect, because though I do see a lot of the comments here, I don’t see everything and some commenters and blurkers (including my wife) have pointed out things here that I have deemed inappropriate and have deleted, etc.
As always, any time name calling comes into play, I do my best to ref those posts and kill them when I believe they’re inappropriate. That included one today from a respected member of the online and real community.
October 8th, 2009 at 8:52 PM
The evidence be damned. The truth doesn’t matter in America anymore. People today commonly believe that everybody lies. After all, as Gore Vidal is fond of saying, we were all raised on advertising!
All across the land, there are mighty battles being waged to sway public opinion, and they are raging on all sides of the political divide. These are incessant wars of and for ideas, and instead of truth, the only things that matter are peoples’ beliefs, regardless of how erroneous they may be.
We are all heavily propagandized. We have all been deceived — so much so, in fact, that we are most often blind to the deception.
The best antidotes are science, media literacy, skepticism, and critical thinking skills. A rudimentary grasp of history is also very helpful. It’s too bad we so rarely teach these skills in the public schools.
Don’t take anything for granted. Things are rarely the way they appear. There are always more sides to every story. Question the underlying assumptions and seek out the best available empirical evidence. Otherwise, the likes of Pioneer may win.
Above all, we must question our own beliefs and subject them to the same scrutiny as all the others, for we all harbor beliefs that are simply untrue or not well supported by the available evidence. Like so many, I suspect Pioneer may be honestly fooling himself. Beware the true believers!
October 8th, 2009 at 9:49 PM
I agree 1000% with Wynn Lee and Doug Karlberg - why doesn’t the Herald have a policy that forces people to use their real names? I don’t take comments seriously from folks who don’t use their real names - including almost everyone who has posted here.
October 8th, 2009 at 10:43 PM
Works by authors David Icke, Howard Zinn, and Gore Vidal should be required reading in high school and university freshman level classes.
Pass/Fail only; no grades.
October 8th, 2009 at 10:45 PM
Todd2,
That’s an excellent comment you’ve posted.
October 8th, 2009 at 10:59 PM
What idiot came up with this spineless attack? Didn’t someone’s mother teach them not to lie? I’ve known Dan and Lisa for years and am proud to say that they are a passionate couple who sincerely care about the future of this county and the path that this country is on. They also possess that rare quality and hold a deep appreciation for the wonder that is life and the world that surrounds us all.
October 9th, 2009 at 9:13 AM
Funny thing, I don’t take comments seriously from people whether they use their real names or not.
I just read them since they don’t make a hill-of-beans difference either way.
They’re all only opinions.
Now when you make public policy,
then you should be identified.
October 9th, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Tom - that’s the beauty of the blog - you have every right to ignore comments from anonymous people.
I’ve explained the policy about anonymous commenting on here plenty. Frankly I’m kinda tired of doing it at this point. It seems really obvious to me, but I guess it’s not.
October 9th, 2009 at 9:41 AM
Bill your comment was removed for the name calling.
October 9th, 2009 at 9:49 AM
Also one other note: There is literally only one person who uses multiple names on here: Fred Farkle/Bob Gallant/Malcolm Moose. Nobody else here uses multiple names and when they do, I ask them why.
October 9th, 2009 at 9:58 AM
Great posts by Todd2, Camile, Suzy Q, DK, Wynne and Sam Taylor!
The First Amendment provides for freedom of speech — it also provides citizens the legal right to lie about issues and/or candidates.
It is our responsibility as citizens to sort through any misinformation we are fed and determine what the truth is.
And, Todd2 is correct. We do this daily, whether we are aware of it or not.
Citizen says that he/she just reads comments and dismisses them, regardless of whether commenters use their real name or not.
That’s one way of dealing with disinformation.
But it precludes the opportunity for public debate, which, I believe is the real reason the Herald allows commenters to post on articles.
Another strategy is to encourage commenters to post a quick note when they read a lie about a candidate or issue. Sam Taylor is right. The mere act of asking a question (playing devil’s advocate) lets other readers know that they should do some research before accepting disinformation as truth.
The third option - do not vote for candidates that allow campaign staff or supporters to use disinformation as a campaign strategy.
After all, what you see during the campaign is what you are going to get once a candidate takes office!
By all means, cast your vote according to your political beliefs.
But keep in mind that transparency and openness are desirable traits in public officials.
October 9th, 2009 at 11:36 AM
I never said I dismissed anything.
I only said they all carry the same weight - which is none.
Finding out a poster maned Tom doesn’t understand the concept of percentage doesn’t add or detract from the value of his post.
But might embarrass him nonetheless.
Posting Information isn’t the same as opinion in my mind.
And so disinformation isn’t meant to be regarded either unless it offends you that Somebody has it wrong,
then you can take steps to add the correction.
Which you did.
So what’s the worry?
October 9th, 2009 at 6:56 PM
Doug: You must not be from my generation. Nobody uses their real name online. My real name isn’t even bob. In the digital world of identity theft, online bullying, trolling, and whatnot, screen names instead of real names are for personal safety. It’s advisable that people SHOULD NOT use their real name online, and it’s not at all about standing behind what you say by using your real name. It’s about not becoming a target IRL (in real life) if one becomes a target online. One comes in contact with countless many times more people online than they do in the course of their daily life outside the internet, so it follows that one runs into countless many times more crazy people online than in real life.