From Stark
Hold on a minute–While Mayor Pike’s office agrees that he will appear and debate the red-light camera issue before the Northwest Business Club, there appears to be some confusion about the date. I hope you wrote this one down on your calendar in pencil. We will provide the date as soon as it becomes available.
The city of Bellingham’s proposal to install red-light cameras in some locations has become a hot issue. The cameras seem to draw opposition from a number of normally non-allied points on the local political spectrum.
Now, the Northwest Business Club is offering a public debate on the issue at a meeting scheduled for noon Wednesday March 9, 2011 at the Elks Lodge, 710 South Samish Way
Mayor Dan Pike will present the case for the cameras, while club member Dan Robbins, a club member and former mayoral candidate, offering the opposing view.
With Pike’s support, the City Council approved installation of the cameras in November 2010.
The cameras have been an issue in the current session of the state legislature, but as of today it is not clear if any bills to restrict those cameras will make it into law.
A buffet lunch commences at 11:45 and the meeting starts at noon. Cost is $10 for annual members and $15 for others. Visitors are welcome.
Will he agree to simply put it on the ballot now?
Will he agree not to SUE the Initiative with our tax money, now, in writing?
Being afraid of the voting public is not a great re-election campaign base.
Well, this is one luncheon I’s hope to attend.
AFY!!theheelotsheepdog!!!
The argument for the cameras has never been completely presented to the public by the mayor or the city council. It certainly appeared to be primarily a money-making scheme for the city coffers. Alternatives to the cameras were neither debated nor discussed. Public input seemed to be neither sought, nor desired. The city council, save Mr. Fleetwood, treated the issue as a fait accompli, once it was approved as a source of revenue in the city budget.
Now the mayor is going to debate the issue? Hogwash! (Literally he is washing a pig, in this case the camera law.)
Allowing these cameras is a slippery slope to having other cameras spying on the public. As the much-quoted Benjamin Franklin stated, sometime shortly before February 17, 1775 as part of his notes for a proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly: They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
It is sad what the city council and the mayor are doing to the quality of life in Bellingham.
Definitely NOT a fan of red light cameras after receiving a ticket in Bellevue for taking a free right on red when it was clearly safe to do so. FIghting it still left me with an $111 ticket. Lame.
Go Mayor Dan!
These cameras are a great idea and every decent driver that doesn’t nose pick will tell you so.
Balance city budgets on the backs of the speeders and traffic scofflaws!
The citizens of Bellingham will see it your way when you explain that no,
you aren’t getting a ticket for crossing after a yellow – only after a red,
and yes,
there are fudge factors built-in to the school zone speed cameras.
Remind citizens that they need not vote on traffic enforcement procedures since all drivers are treated equally under the law for safety’s sake,
and a Judge will be happy to field complaints just as they do now.
Remind them that Eyman is against cameras,
that oughtta sway any sentient drivers.
Go Dan Go!!! And thanks Citizen, for your comments because the majority of Bellingham Citizens agree with you and the cameras.
How the heck would you know what the majority want, Floyd?
While I am not afraid of traffic cameras in Bellingham, I would like to see a community based approach. I walked to Parkview when I was growing up, and either rode the school bus or rode my bike to Shuksan. Things were certainly different in Bellingham back then… but I do think it’s very important for school kids to walk/bike to school in safety.
How about a community effort where we take the officers that would be sitting in their office reviewing these photographs and instead have them work with a group of concerned parents and the schools to implement an ‘orange zone’. That is, where parent’s work with the officers to walk kids across these identified intersections complete with orange safety jackets. Make a big deal out of it, get the community involved, and have the officers rotate throughout the various identified intersections to provide the ‘muscle’. Anyway, that’s what I would be working on if I were Mayor.
Again folks, this is a scam and has nothing to do with safety. They have already taken the steps with lengthening of the yellow. Plus do some research and see why these things are being dumped all over the country and that dumping is coming from police departments. The revenue is also a red herring as most who tried it found trying to enforce and collect cost more than the benefit. Do you want cops and more city attorneys wasting their time on what is not even a big issue and trying to collect on what is mostly a scam by the insurance industry who has invested heavily in the camera companies and loves jacking rates on those who get them? Sure wish I could be there and I hope the mayor is honest about his own misgivings on these things and not just sticking to a script because he helped start this boondoggle down the path.
Actually read the links I posted in the last two weeks. Be informed and don’t just spout your feelings about enforcement, while those are valid they are misguided. Also Eyman and the people proposing the initiative are screw ups, but they are right about these…. are we always gong to be the last to realize and waste our time and money before they are eventually scrapped?
The kids going to school would be safer if they obeyed biking rules and crossed with the pedestrian lights instead of ignoring them…
The majority are more concerned with being killed by a red-light runner
than they are concerned about the complaints of the driver what ran it.
The majority are more likely to worry about their kid getting squashed in a school zone
than they are worried about how late you are for your tee time.
They don’t care if bad drivers get expensive tickets that enrich the taxpayers.
They don’t care if it ruins your idea of Liberty and Justice for All.
The majority of drivers are smart and they don’t care to coddle dumb ones.
But good question!
“Our research in Gardena has revealed there is no significant traffic safety impact as a result of the use of the red light cameras. At almost every intersection where we have cameras, collisions have remained the same, decreased very slightly, or increased depending on the intersection you examine. When combining the statistics of all the intersections, the overall consensus is that there is not a noticeable safety enhancement to the public.”
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/TrcDocsGardenaContr2010chiefsReport.pdf
AFY!!theheelotsheepdog!!!
Edward57 said: “…Allowing these cameras is a slippery slope to having other cameras spying on the public.”
Nobody threatened petitions or puting the matter to a vote when camera’s were installed on public buses years ago. Libertarian’s have no problem with camera spying on (relatively poor) bus riders. Bus riders are under surveillance for the entire trip, audio included, and not just when going through school zones or traffic intersections. And that when bus riders don’t threaten public safety as do those driving WMD (i.e. motor vehicles) endangering children in school zones, etc. Why do WMD pilots expect to have their own ‘private Idaho’?
AZ Firefighter: Red Light Camera Program a Sham
…Simply put, studies that favor photo enforcement can be traced back to the camera companies, insurance industry, or others who gain to make money from the technology, as they are very skilled in how they work the statistics to their favor. The most recent national study from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) is an example of this, as they deemed a suburb of Phoenix as the poster child for red-light cameras with a 79 percent decrease in fatal accidents. When one looks past the numbers, it is revealed that the study is scientifically flawed, fails to account for a multitude of roadway infrastructure upgrades that hold many driver safety benefits of their own, a continuous decline of the nationwide fatal accident rates, and so much more.
Reports that find neutral or negative findings with the camera technology are from organizations that have no financial stake in the matter. The Virginia Transportation Research Council and Texas Transportation Institute are two of the most respected organizations that each completed their own exhaustive studies finding that photo enforcement increased accidents and caused taxpayers more money in the long run. These reports both recommended that a more efficient route to safety would be in intersection re-engineering, more visible traffic lights, proper yellow light timing, and more….
http://camerafraud.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/az-firefighter-red-light-cameras-program-a-sham/
AFY!!theheelotsheepdog!!!
Mike Williams, who spent years lobbying for Redflex(a Red Light camera company) is going after his former company, with legislation intended to cut down on what he calls “due process violations.”
You know things are going badly when the person you relied on to pitch your admitted scam to the public is now lobbying against you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeUaP0dTwI8
AFY!!theheelotsheepdog!!!
Mayor Pike and the City Council argue that the installation of the red light cameras is about the safety of the Public.
They say feeding the city’s coffers with exorbitant fines generated by the cameras is secondary to the taxpayers’ well being; however, they say, it wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing to make a profit from the cameras either.
My safety and the safety of my neighbors matters to me, but if I want to listen to a debate about how the red light cameras will have an effect on our safety I have to pay $10 (or $15 including a baloney sandwich).
We already pay for suitable accommodations for a ‘Public’ debate with our tax dollars; a Real public forum should be held at the Courthouse, or the COB Municipal Court, or in the historical landmark building across the street from the library.
If the red light cameras are not about profit why is the debate scheduled to be held at a Conservative business club, which was formed for the recruitment and support of Conservative, Pro-business government officials, as stated in the Northwest Business Club’s mission statement.
Whether to have the cameras installed or not, the discussion on this issue is becoming increasingly exclusive of the Public.
LOL Camille, but how apropos that the debate comes with an overpriced baloney sandwich…
Sincesome, like the Mayor have refused to dig and prefer to hang in the corner they’ve backed themselves into, let’s recap.. well this Chrome Google site won’t link, but Google, Why the Insurance industry loves Red light cameras…
Also Google Las Vega says no way to red light cameras or just google red light cameras removed throughout the country and you will see the myriad reasons why.
Ain’t America great?
All these divergent views and still there’s Love all around.
How swell.
Camille et al,
This issue was discussed for several hours over at least three City Council meetings, including a collective total of maybe an hour or hour and a half of public comment, which is technically not the same as testimony, but looks and sounds so much alike most would not recgnize the difference. Those meetings were held by the Council, per their rules and oversight, so I was involved in speaking to the issue, but not in the meeting management.
As far as speaking at the NW Business Club, I speak to numerous groups across the political spectrum on public policy and city administration issues. I think it’s part of my job. In this case, NW Business Club is not a friendly audience, I expect even in this issue. If you notice, the ‘con’ speaker is a member of the Club; fwiw, I am not. I would be glad to post my comments after the dialog, and generally provide my comments to the press after speaking on higher profile issues such as this.
As an aside to AlmostRay, I have blogged and spoken numerous times about why I’ve proposed this, about what I am doing or not vis-a-vis the initiative, and how I plan to advocate to the Council about addressing legal/constitutional concerns regarding this particular initiative. While I believe we need to pay close attention to what the law permits and does not, and there are some concerns about this initiative with regard to that, I’ll give you a hint: Tim Eyman feels pretty positive about Bellingham compared to Wenatchee, Longview and Monroe…And the fact that I know how Tim Eyman feels about Bellingham also demonstrates for some whether or not Mr. Eyman has involvement on this issue in Bellingham.
Thanks everyone, for the conversation.
Okay, so I just got an email from Tim Eyman asking me to explain the above posting. Some of his local organizers felt that my post was the equivalent of saying things behind his back. Eyman asked me what I meant, and so I called him. We had a good conversation, where we agreed that we disagree on a number of things, including the camera issue.
However, he agreed that Bellingham has been better to work with than the other cities with this issue before them right now, which was my point. We are not trying to keep this off the ballot by going to court, for example. Our staff have been–as they are in most instances–rpofessional and helpful in working with Mr. Eyman and the others trying to get this on the ballot. On those matters, Mr. Eyman and I agree. And I had a conversation with him to confirm that shared belief.
organizer… meh.
Just figured I’d make sure the person being talked about had a say, I agree with him and his tactics less often than I agree with you.
anon,
“meh” is almost yiddish, but I know not of it. One possibility would have been the yiddish word “feh”, which is an expression of abject disgust.
Just figured I’d let you know, as I agree with T. Eyeman, more than Pike or apparently, you.
meh in that case would be something more like “eh…” just a sound expressing dismissal, not used as a worthwhile word. no need to look too deeply into it.
why attack me and my opinions?
I just wanted to correct Pike in his assertion that I am a local organizer.
I thought with whatever was meant by what pike said, eyeman should have the opportunity to respond.
These cameras are about revenue. Although there are some incidental effects on driver behavior the statistics show there are much better alternatives that cost VERY little to the community.
1) The ATS solution makes ATS and Goldman Sachs rich off bellingham residents (money that will never come back to this community and its businesses)
2) Timing of yellow lights and the length of the interval between when a light turns red in one direction and then green in the other are FAR more effective at promoting safety according to the studies.
3) speed bumps or surfacing the road with something like the warning strips they have on the side of freeways would be a one-time cost in school zones that actually would make drivers pay attention.
If this type of strategy was employed the tragic accident where a student was not paying attention and hit another car causing the death of a young child could have been avoided. A camera however wouldn’t have had ANY impact on that accident.
4) people simply do not go around running red lights on purpose. They’re just trying to get to work and usually do so in complete safety. The citizens of bellingham are not criminals, they’re just workers in our community that are trying to get to the store or to their place of employment.
I can’t stop at the red light, I’m just safely trying to get to work!
Gimme a speed bump to remind me what the speed limit is so I can race from one to the next!
Force the opposing drivers to wait for me to get through the intersection instead of mandating a stop at the red!
All revenue generated by traffic cameras will only make Goldman Sachs wealthy!
Did I miss anything?
…Photo ticketing schemes extract enormous amounts of cash from the local economies in which they pretend to serve. Instead of this money staying within our community, Redflex and American Traffic Solutions virtually launder these stolen funds through pseudo-local offices… and back to their respective faceless investment banks.
In one corner, American Traffic Solutions sounds downright patriotic in name. Their surveillance cameras even boast a sticker as being “Made in the USA.” Don’t let the smoke and mirrors fool you though: ATS is a pawn of the massively-corrupt investment firm and former bailout recipient Goldman Sachs….
Just like the large, faceless investment banks which helped contribute to our current national recession, ticketing vendors Redflex and ATS also create local booms and busts within local municipalities. Unfortunately, the local elected “leaders” are asleep at the wheel, and aren’t paying attention to this modern game of “Three Cup Shuffle.”
Cities and towns are lured in by the prospect of “free money,” usually to the chipper reminder that such ticketing programs are “violator funded.” Contracts are haphazardly entered into, cameras go up, and the money starts to pour in. But as with any scam, there’s always a catch. Programs which start out profitable usually end up in the red, as is the case with the City of Mesa’s beleaguered relationship with ATS.
Citizens revolt, avoid areas with overzealous enforcement, or simply grow savvy to methods to avoid detection. Unintended consequences include a population that has become savvy to avoiding process service, making a mockery of the supposed “rule of law.” Increases in yellow light timing can and have destroyed these profitable schemes, sometimes incurring the wrath of these money-sucking vampire vendors.
Attempts to cancel contracts administratively are met with threats of lawsuits….
http://camerafraud.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/arizonas-most-toxic-assets-redflex-and-ats/
AFY!!theheelotsheepdog!!!
Enough with the boogeyman Eyman comments.
I spent all of 2009 working against a budgetary obsticle that Tim Eyman put in place years ago. I don’t share his idea that there should be practically no tax, no government. So what?
The fact on this matter, is that entirely local Bellingham area citizens, in a multi-partisan group, took up opposition to the red light cameras. Eyman just shows up anywhere people are battling anything government or tax. This ain’t his baby.
However, there are plenty of local folks across the spectrum who don’t like the idea of shipping hundreds of thousands of dollars out of the Bellingham economy, to a profiteer mercinary company in Arizona. Traffic cameras also remind me of those science fiction movies where the populous are fitted with collars that shock you or blow your head off the moment you screw up something.
…and again, rear end collisions go up when the law abiders start panicking at the sight of a yellow. Meanwhile the bad drivers who kill people are still looking out the side window or at their cel phone or otherwise distracted, so the threat of a ticket is not even on their mind, and they still kill. We just get a picture of the death now.
I want traffic safety. I am okay with lawbreakers being ticketed and fined. I just don’t like this method.
One study shows that extended yellow light times actually increase safety at no additional cost to the community. It cites examples of problem intersections where yellow times have been raised by about 30 percent and the number of people entering on red fell dramatically. It cites, in addition, controlled scientific studies that confirm the hypothesis that longer yellows are better.
The following reductions in red light entries are documented:
Mesa, Arizona 73%
Georgia 75%
Virginia site 1 79%
Virginia site 2 77%
Virginia site 3 Problem “virtually eliminated”
Maryland Problem “virtually eliminated”
Office of the Majority Leader
U.S. House of Representatives
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/finalreport.pdf
Patriot, don’t expect reason to rule in this the fix was in before the council voted. This is just a hosing and in two years we will be dumping them.
I would highly suggest no one try this as it doesn’t work? and it is destroying public property and will sort of ruin the scam that is going to put millions into our coffers while nabbing those vicious thousands of red light runners who careen down Holly everyday which is why there are pedestrians killed and T-bones wiping out innocent lives every day in Bellingham…
http://how2dostuff.blogspot.com/2008/05/how-to-blind-camera-using-laser.html