Because this was a hugely-popular topic the other day, today’s news, via the New York Times:
WASHINGTON – The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, put forward his version of sweeping health care legislation on Wednesday, which a Senate aide said would cost $849 billion over 10 years. Mr. Reid promised that it would reduce the federal budget deficit while covering most of the uninsured and adding new benefits to Medicare.
The full story, over here.
Q: Thoughts?
November 18th, 2009 at 9:25 PM
The train is pulling out of the station, are Republicans just going to stand by the tracks and yell nonsense over the roar or get on board for their constituents’ sake?
November 18th, 2009 at 9:41 PM
America is moving into. . . the 20th century.
It’s about time.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:05 PM
Sounds like he’s in an echo chamber can see at least three people in the audience, lots of ums and ers punctuating the platitudes - Obamas ers and ums must be contagious - Is this the same Rick Larsen who spoke in August at the Skagit PUD to 600 plus constituents?
November 18th, 2009 at 10:12 PM
The Senate bill sounds like it has addressed the major issues to reach consent and pass.
It will cover 94% of Americans. It will include an “opt out” public option for the states that wish to.
It also addresses the abortion issue nicely by assuring that no federal monies will be used for abortion,but that at least one plan within the exchange will offer abortion coverage and one plan would not.
It will also reduce the federal deficit by $127 billion dollars over the next decade ad by $650 billion in the decade after that.
This reform when passed will be the crowning jewel of Obama’s legacy.
Nice.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:34 PM
Stand by the tracks and yell nonsense, it seems.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:45 PM
This is sheer insanity. You can’t reduce the cost of health care by imposing more taxes on health care.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:18 AM
For Suzie, do I have to indent as well?
What more taxes? I’m in the bracket that will actually get dinged and I can tell you I can afford it. You who cannot will not be taxed. And the tax is still maybe just a roll back to the fair share I had to pay during the Clinton years when many of us got well off. The rest of you will see your costs go down according to the real experts, not the idiots on Fox news.
I can imagine the myriad of ways in which this will all come to benefit us. I’m not afraid just because Ms. Wolf thinks what I believe is sheer insanity. In reality, the only people who are afraid of this change is those who fear everything about any change. There is reason to fear things getting worse than they are, because things stink now. But I am encouraged smart minds are seeking different solutions rather than the hosing we’ve been getting.
The insurance industry is going to get millions of new customers. The doctors just want consistency and the new patients/business won’t hurt as more can start to think about their health and longevity. Big Pharma is taking their cut. The only ones left trying to obstruct are the fringe of the Republican party who cannot get over the last election, which is all they have left of a base, and those who talk god and country but love anarchy.
It’s not perfect because I don’t like parts of it either, but it’s a start and someday this country may even catch up to the 21st century.
I wish I had a nickel for every time in my life some Republican told me to fear government, my neighbor or some imagined foe that turned out to be bogus paranoia. I’d be riding a much bigger boat.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Off Topic, indulge me this last time (yeah right), but Sam, don’t think your newly fire tested tolerance has gone unnoticed or unappreciated. I do like being able to have my say, especially in such a target rich environment–and will strive to be hmm, er, uh, kerfuffle–civil. Wow my nose isn’t even growing!
November 19th, 2009 at 10:47 AM
Jurgen follows the sheep right down the tubes into poverty, failure, defeat and disaster, gulled into a stupor by the singsong nonsense of his leader.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Spinnwolf,
If you stand in the same place long enough,
does it seem that you’ve moved?
I wonder what doing nothing ever gets you.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:57 AM
The more the merrier on the blog, Jurgen. I appreciate your willingness to participate and in a way in which perhaps some elbows can be thrown but reigned in a bit from the times of the past. So thanks again.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Morning Spinn-meister. See you’re still sleeping on the wrong side of the bed. I’ll bet you were really disappointed to hear that 2012 is just a fantasy and a bad movie–except for some of the special effects. It’s going to be a long 7 more years for you and I can imagine your pain, even when I revel in it.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:03 AM
“Republicans have vowed to fight the legislation at every turn, saying it represents a dangerous expansion in the role of government that would increase taxes and insurance costs for millions of people. “It’s going to be a holy war,” said Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah.”
A holy war? What is this - a Republican jihad against America?
November 19th, 2009 at 11:24 AM
Well the Republicans are trying their hardest to be the American Taliban.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Pretty much.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:37 PM
“Well the Republicans are trying their hardest to be the American Taliban.”
And who can blame them?
America has done more to elevate that proxy arm of Pakistan than they could ever have done for themselves.
I betcha even the Soviets woulda beat em if we hadn’t been supplying their arms.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:59 PM
Someone has to save what is left of our freedom and turn back the destructive forces of Progressivism/Marxism which have failed everywhere they have been tried. The United States is not Europe. And we have no reason to imitate the old world.
November 19th, 2009 at 6:45 PM
I, for one, am getting damned tired of Republican obstructionism in the Senate and all the bogus slogans.
The socialism/marxism/progressivism labels simply don’t scare us anymore. Like Jaim suggests, it’s time to face reality and move into the 21st century.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:15 PM
It’s not going to pass.
It may fail a cloture vote.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:42 PM
Chugga chugga chugga, I think we can, I think we can….No one is going to be so foolish as to not let it come up for a debate. That’s psycho talk. Not even Lieberman is so foolish as to not let this go ahead and be debated. I vote fait acompli. (sp?) It’s all over the the fine points.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:48 PM
Isn’t Lieberman a piece of work!
Maybe there’s something wrong with a system where one grandstanding egomaniac can derail the entire legislative process.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:49 PM
Citizen,
…or redirect to a better path.”
November 19th, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I refuse to believe that the 21st century will be a socialist utopia here, when experience has shown the bankruptcy of that approach everywhere it’s been tried.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:30 AM
Socialist utopia? Socialist, schmoshalist. I’d settle for a democracy. Or I’d take a socialist utopia over a capitalist oligarchy any day. Varying degrees of socialism have been tried, some failed, some are still alive and well today; but utopia suggests striving for something perfect and I don’t think anyone would claim that any nation on earth has attained perfection, even this one. All the boogeyman of socialism really is, is an attempt to collectively provide for the common good of society — especially those who are disadvantaged. And this threatens the gluttonous? Sounds like the best part of democracy to me.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Taxes and more taxes is the worst thing we could be doing to help create jobs, this is about the most stupid thing anyone could try to pull off in a country in recession looking over the edge into depression!
Anyone know how many new taxes are in the Senate Bill, Stupid is what it is!
AFY!!thesheepdog!!!
November 20th, 2009 at 12:20 PM
“The socialism/marxism/progressivism labels simply don’t scare us anymore. Like Jaim suggests, it’s time to face reality and move into the 21st century,” said Todd 2.
That’s the problem. It should scare you. If you were facing reality, you would see that what you call “moving into the 21st century” involves a return to the serfdom of the Middle Ages—but that is what the “progressives” are giving us. This is true doublespeak right out of Brave New World, in which regressives call themselves progressives, and pretend to repair the economy while dismantling it; to create jobs, while insuring they will not be created; to cut the deficit while increasing it.
November 20th, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Standing in front of the lifeboats is hardly directing anything.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Here’s a little clip for those of you who think that the government is your friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n2m-X7OIuY
November 20th, 2009 at 1:16 PM
By the way, I received that from an acquaintence in Denmark who can’t believe that we’re contemplating “health care reform” of the sort that is contained in this legislation.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:20 PM
But we won’t have to get in the life boats if we will just turn the ship around and not head it right into the mine that will sink it!
AFY!!thesheepdog!!!
November 20th, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Oh no!
Not another Youtube poster!
Gad zooks!
No wonder you guys can’t digest solid food,
you’re on the Youtube teat!
November 20th, 2009 at 1:54 PM
Like you or I even a Dane would know ‘what kind’ of legislation that will be passed. or not.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Tell your Danish friend to quit watching Fox or it’s international equivalent SKY News.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Ciz, you made me think about a movie I’s saw this week, it was made in 1957, based on a true story, called “Abandon Ship!”
What was it about you asked, well, its starts with a ship wreck, you see it hit this mine (I’s think I already told you what the ship and what the mine represents to me).
Well, Tyrone Powers (the star) is swimming for his life from some sharks, makes it to a raft then sees a life boat so he goes for that, the captain is on the life boat dying and turns command over to Tyrone, only problem is the lifeboat is built for 9, and there were near 30 either on it or hanging off it.
The last words from the captain was “Save as many as you can”!
Well you see folks if we pass any of these health care bills that make it worst, guess what, the system will only be able to save as many as they can which will be less than now because if it cost more there will be less resources!
Now back to me story, a true story at that, everything is ok on the boat for a while, they have a gun to shoot the sharks with, and some shark repellant, but then a storm comes up (kinda like a bunch more baby boomers needing health care don’t you think) and Tyrone being in command knows when the storm hits, all will be lost, so he decides we got to lighten the load, first he kicks all of the dying off (they’re gonna die anyway), then he looks at who is good to row, they only got to go 1,500 miles to shore, so now he kicks the weak off (like women & children & some girly men) till he gets it down to 14, the dog jumped off on its own and they really wanted him to stay incase they had to eat him, now there was kinda of a mutiny but he had the gun and you know how it goes we ain’t talking if we don’t have the gun (that was from “Grand Canyon” btw), they make it thru the storm and a ship finds them, but then they all remember the ones left behind, and they kinda felt bad.
You know I don’t want to feel bad about the ones left behind and I don’t think there will be a ship to save us cause we are the ship saving everyone else today(that is why they are coming here for health care) and when we sink there won’t be no one else.
So that is why I’s agin these very bad bills!
BTW, Tyrone got 6 months in jail!
A nother movie minute (maybe 10) by:
AFY!!thesheepdog!!!
November 20th, 2009 at 8:57 PM
In the last two days, I’ve seen lots of anxiety over the recommendations of government panels, first that regular mammograms be delayed until a woman is fifty, and then today, a recommendation that pap smears be delayed until a woman is 21, and then performed with less frequency.
On one side, women see this as an intrusion of government, and, with some justification, see that the future, under Obamacare, will make the findings of these panels binding on all patients.
The other side says, “These are just recommendations. There’s nothing to worry about”. It won’t happen.
I’m not sure about the future, having failed to predict it, other than to predict the meltdown that occurred in late 2008, but there’s a way around this.
Health Savings Accounts, since they make routine medical care and the costs of routine tests the responsibility of the patient, would place the decision about what test to perform and how much to pay for it, and how often it should be performed, the result of a consultation between a physician and his patient. Wouldn’t that be nice?
The bills under consideration in both the House and the Senate pretty much kill Health Savings Accounts.
Isn’t that wonderful?
November 20th, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Jurgen Says:
November 20th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Tell your Danish friend to quit watching Fox or it’s international equivalent SKY News.
My “Danish Friend” doesn’t need your advice, and her tastes in media are catholic, to say the least.
Why don’t you attempt to, as I wrote earlier, “propose and defend an argument?” Maybe you’re not capable of doing that.
What a disapointment.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:18 PM
replace the word regressives with “neo-cons” and replace the work progressives with “conservatives” and you have just summed up the Bush Administration, She-Wolf.
November 21st, 2009 at 12:19 AM
I like Health savings accounts, but they would only work for those who have the means to fully finance their health problems. For a healthy middle class couple with 0-1 healthy kids, that’s totally fine. For anyone with cancer, larger families, serious injuries, lower incomes, chronic/genetic conditions, or permanent disability, HSA’s are about as useful as being thrown an uninflated life raft while drowning and being told to blow it up themselves in order to be saved.
Some people’s treatment will exceed their lifetime earnings–see kids with cancer, leukemia, or muscular dystrophy. I don’t think they should die/suffer for the rest of their lives because of that. What can we do about that, and be fair and equal about it in the process?
November 21st, 2009 at 1:04 AM
So Dave, assuming what you say is correct, that the bill, which is still under construction, will kill Health Savings Accounts, what is the argument against Health Savings Accounts that seems to be holding sway? These things don’t happen in a vacuum and you surely must know what valid points there may be on the other side of the issue from you?
Also the Bill is still a work in progress and issues are being ironed out or will be ironed out as we go forward. No system or corporation for that matter, has ever sprung forth perfect, whole and flawless.
I hope you’re communicating your concerns to your representatives.
Finally I did not mean to disparage your Danish friend in any way, but you laid this one person’s opinion out there as if it held weight because she was from Denmark. You brought her/him into the conversation. My comment was cheeky and assumptive as well and I apologize. But if you want to see someone who often uses the same flip shorthand to dismiss an argument by a commenter here, go look above your bathroom sink.
November 21st, 2009 at 9:30 AM
The weakest of all arguments - My Danish friend says…
And a phony one at that.
Have yer buddy post her doubts directly to the board how’s about?
I dares ya.
November 21st, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Bikerbob, Jurgen,
So nobody should have an HSA?
They’re essentially the model that Whole Foods uses successfully, with the company making a contribution to the account every year.
November 21st, 2009 at 9:45 AM
Just as I thought. I know Dave O.
November 21st, 2009 at 11:21 AM
No, HSA’s are good for some people, but not everyone. Those that HSA’s don’t work for, those with little means or high expenses, need something else beyond a healthcare version of an IRA/401(k).
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:34 AM
Who said that, I was asking if anyone knew the arguments for eliminating them if what was said is true. I guess you have your answer now from the highly knowledgeable bikerbob. It’s good for those who are not needy. You know, those ones you and Spinn think should just get along on their own initiative. Just keep them out in the weeds and woods beyond the Fred Meyer so we don’t have to see them, then we’ll think everything is cozy in America and no one needs a helping hand. Besides they probably deserve it for some reason for being slackers right, Mr. Compassion?