Via the Seattle Times:
The Senate Ways and Means Committee on Monday afternoon approved Senate Bill 6843, which would suspend Tim Eyman’s Initiative 960 and let lawmakers increase taxes with a simple majority vote.
The measure now goes to the full Senate for consideration.
The full story, right here.
February 8th, 2010 at 9:31 PM
Go Legislature…..
February 8th, 2010 at 9:48 PM
No matter whether you prefer a helpful government paid with taxes, or a minimal government with restricted taxing authority… this move basically just pulled the plug on the state initiative process in general.
State initiatives can include Eyman stuff and R71, but it can also include “Death with Dignity” and agenda from a diverse range of ideology. This precident would seem to make initiatives pointless.
February 8th, 2010 at 11:00 PM
Eyman abused the initiative process so you only have him to blame for your imaginings….but I think thou dost fantasize too much..
February 9th, 2010 at 7:44 AM
You’re both right.
I think taxation is too complex to be hamstrung by initiative,
but I hate to see anything we approved or rejected that way simply pushed aside by lawmakers.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:32 AM
You could get the befuddled masses in this state to support any kind of legislative mayhem as long as it had taxes as it’s target, even and maybe especially if it meant cutting off noses to spite faces..
February 9th, 2010 at 9:41 AM
Ex-Fed Chairman Greenspan for all his faults, one of them is not that he is dumb.
He made the following observation this weekend. I paraphrase.
“Government no longer has the physical ability to cut spending in a meaningful way.”
Intuitively we understand this; hence the initiative movement. The Eyeman’s of the world are a product of government’s inability to control spending.
They have been feeding the public so much pork, that the Tea Party is now going Islamic on them.
The secrecy of 24karat gold plated benefits - medical for life - early retirements - double dipping two retirements, has come to an end. Add to this job security generous cost of living and step increases, and you have the environment of resentment by those who get their wages lowered everyday by taxes.
Citizens know that these benefits are worth a lot, and they cannot get these significant perks, that will make their retirement years comfortable.
The anger will not subside when taxes are raised, and nothing substantial is done about reining in spending, which includes government employees wage and benefits, which are the bulk of any government spending.
Sometimes it is too easy to dismiss the taxpayers concerns and label them the “Lynch Mob mentality”, but considering Greenspan’s remarks, the mob may not be so ignorant after all.
Calling them stupid, when the disparity and waste has gotten so apparent, will only inflame them. further.
They have a legitimate point.
The latest statistics from the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows this gross disparity.
Federal workers average $119,000 in wages and benefits, while their counter-parts in private employment average only $59,000 a year.
Most political leaders today, will not even give this issue an honest analysis. They fear government unions.
Government can get the huddled masses off their backs, by doing their job, which includes cutting all waste, and making sure that government employees wages are fair in relation to those who have their pay lowered in order to support government.
Ignoring legitimate complaints, is not a solution, nor is demeaning comments towards people who bring up constructive criticism; Ever.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:13 AM
Doug,
Averages can be decieving in that they include the very high and the very low, the number of each unknown in this case. A more reliable number would be median salaries. Would also appreciate knowing the source of those figures. Thanks.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:35 AM
We’ve cut spending for essential social services enough. It’s time for tax increases to balance the budget.
We should let the Bush tax cuts expire, enact the small fee on bank liabilities, heavily tax compensation for corporate officers, increase taxes on unearned income, and reinstate the estate tax.
Congress should also dramatically streamline the tax code, eliminate tax breaks, exemptions, and loopholes, and resist the urge to legislate with tax policy.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:44 AM
Todd,
One of my favorite loopholes is when an American who lives in America, “bases” his company in the Cayman Islands, then pays himself back to America, where he may or may not spend the money.
It has been estimated at 60-80 billion at least that is being lost in tax revenue.
Come on now congress, make THAT one a law: The “You ain’t foolin’ anyone. Pay up!” law.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:54 AM
Doug,
You have repeatedly claimed that federal employees are overpaid, earning about twice as much as their private sector counterparts, but this is not true. Furthermore, the Cato study, where this idea apparently originates, seems grossly misleading.
Indeed, Politifact recently checked newly elected Senator Brown’s statement that “Federal employees are making twice as much as their private counterparts,” and judged it false.
First of all, the use of averages to support such a claim is misleading, because it provides a skewed measure of central tendency, whereas median earnings would be much more representative. Furthermore, Politifact also notes that “a big reason for the disparity is the different mix of jobs in the federal work force. It has more higher-paying white-collar jobs, experts told us, while there are more lower-paying, blue-collar jobs in the private sector that bring the average down. So it is not an apples-to-apples comparison.”
Finally, “Some public jobs pay more, some pay less. And the public ones that pay more are not consistently double as he claimed.”
I am not sure where you and others are hearing these misleading claims, but perhaps in the future, you would be wise to question the veracity of those sources. Indeed, maybe you should let the rest of us know where you heard these false claims, so we can all avoid the purveyors of such misinformation.
Here’s the link:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/feb/03/scott-brown/politifact-debut-brown-says-federal-jobs-pay-twice/
February 9th, 2010 at 12:02 PM
Mamosa, if you have better numbers that address the issue, I am all ears.
The numbers I used above are supposedly from the government’s own Bureau of Labor Statistics. I say supposedly because I got them form the Cato Insitutes website. The link is below.
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/08/24/federal-pay-continues-rapid-ascent/
Some folks will cricize the Cato Insitute, without actually checking their work. Cato cites the BLS data, and I doubt they would fudge something so easy to check.
I checked anyway in anticipation of the knee jerk reations, I might forment.
I went to the BLS site below, and here is an indepth analysis, that seems to easily show that in both wages and benefits private compensation ,has indeed fallen behind in both catagories. Keep in mind that the Cato Insitute compares Federal total compensation to private total compensation, and the link below compares State and Local government compensation to private compensation.
The BLS seems to be impartial, even though they are government workers too. Even these government workers are saying that government jobs pay better than private jobs. How much fairer could I be?
Either way, it’s far better to be employed by government, than a private employer.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ecec.pdf
I hope you find these numbers accurate and impartial.
If you have other accurate and impartial data, I am all ears.
February 9th, 2010 at 12:02 PM
Richard,
You’re quite right, but anyone who really wants to make their blood boil should read the 2003 New York Times bestseller by Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist, David Cay Johnston, entitled “Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich – and Cheat Everybody Else.”
The extent to which the ruling elite have gamed our tax system is absolutely astonishing.
February 9th, 2010 at 12:08 PM
Todd, you have a point, but you do not seem slightly interested in actually exploing the subject, but only critiquing others. No offense, but you seem to have your mind made up, regardless of the data provided above.
Too bad, because the objections you raise above are nicely laid out in the BLS data, not by the notorious right wing Cato Institute.
Job catagories are broadly outlined into three groups; Professionals, Sales and Office Admin, and Service.
Private industry is paid less in every catagory right down the line. Cato was not misleading people, only using the government’s own data.
Have you got any data that is better than the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, Todd??
February 9th, 2010 at 12:15 PM
Todd, you and I agree that the system has been rigged by the Super-rich, so they always win, and we alwasy loose.
Look at Wall Street. They burned the house down, and then got a high paying job to put the fire out, and then got another high paying job to rebuild, all by raising our banking fees.
What you are missing though, is that the game can only be rigged to this extent with the assistance of politicians that are supposed to be representing our interests.
Look at Obama, he promised no lobbyists on his payroll, then he reneged.
He did not say some lobbyist’s.
92% of the Obam administrations senior staff, have not worked for a private employer. Most are from government, the rest are from the Academia.
You really believe that CHANGE is in the air, or just another politician telling us whatever will get us to vote for them?
February 9th, 2010 at 12:29 PM
Paid less right on down the line? Not in all industries
Attorney
Government average: $105,577
Nationwide average: $110,520
Financial Manager
Government average: $95,257
Nationwide average: $96,620
Economist
Government average: $89,441
Nationwide average: $80,900
Microbiologist:
Government average: $80,798
Nationwide average: $63,360
Architect
Government average: $80,777
Nationwide average: $68,560
Accountant
Government average: $74,907
Nationwide average: $58,020
Librarian
Government average: $74,630
Nationwide average: $49,110
Human Resources Manager
Government average: $71,232
Nationwide average: $89,950
Nurse
Government average: $60,935
Nationwide average: $56,880
Tax examiner
Government average: $36,963
Nationwide average: $49,460
Medical Technician
Government average: $35,526
Nationwide average: $33,170
February 9th, 2010 at 1:00 PM
Doug,
I don’t understand. You suggest that I am only interested in refuting you, regardless of the evidence, but did you read my post? Are you disputing the Politifact analysis I linked above? I thought it provided a balanced, substantiated, and well-reasoned argument.
As for Wall Street’s unholy grip on our government, I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve repeatedly argued that our government is far more responsive to the needs of the ruling, corporate, or power elite, than it is to the needs of the people, regardless of which party is in the White House.
The extent to which this is true is amply demonstrated in a series of books by Florida State University political science professor, Thomas R. Dye, entitled “Who’s Running America?”
I think his latest in this series is “Who’s Running America? The Bush Restoration” (7th Edition). Unfortunately, like most text books, it’s expensive.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:10 PM
Elisabeth, I guess I stand corrected. government workers are paid more than their private counter-parts 72% of the time. I don’t know where you got your numbers, but the statistics you only add to the impetus to take a good honest look at the issue.
Unless you are okay that taxpayers in private industry should get paid less than the same jobs in government.
In that case raise their pay.
PS: Do your numbers include benefits included, or are the benefits stripped out?
February 9th, 2010 at 1:32 PM
All employees should get generous benefits, regardless of who they work for.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:49 PM
Todd, are you hiring. I need a job, and great bennies sounds good to me.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:16 PM
Hey Doug, me too. I’m looking for work.
How about it Todd2?
February 9th, 2010 at 8:39 PM
Here is a nice explantion of the private versus government pay differential.
Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/11/AR2006081101566.html
February 10th, 2010 at 3:33 PM
Thanks for the link, Doug.
Hmm, the author, “Chris Edwards is tax director at the Cato Institute and author of ‘Downsizing the Federal Government.’” I suppose there isn’t much doubt about which political axe he is grinding.
Oh, and once again, the use of averages to portray central tendency in highly skewed distributions, such as income or home prices, is very, very misleading. In fact, there are all kinds of conceptual pitfalls and traps, when making the kind of statistical comparisons mentioned in the article. In this case, the use of median values would be much better.